Engine dies at idol

Tavalin

Tavalin

Florida Mike (again)
Hello everybody,
I have returned and am now back to driving the X around. When the engine warms up and the dual fans kick in the engine dies at idol. I upped the idol a little bit and it still just cuts off. She sat for over three month while I was gone.
Now, when I look over at the voltage on the instrument panel the needle seems to be low. I just replaced the battery and partially rebuilt the top of the engine when I replaced the head gasket. Everything seemed fine when I drove around at that time, over four months ago.
Could it be the alternator isn’t supplying enough power? Or the new battery isn’t power enough (750 CCA rated).
Anyway, good to be back and talking to everyone again.
1986 Bertone X1/9, 1500.
Stay safe,
Mike
 
What level of voltage is the alternator putting out? Should be over 13v
 
Does the battery seem weak, struggling to turn the engine over fast enough when starting?
What is the current idle rpm when cold, normal, hot?
Is the idle ever rough with a splashy misfire from tailpipe?
Does the tailpipe ever smoke or smell of gasoline?
Does the car make gurgling sounds under the dash like there is air trapped in the coolant?
 
Cratecruncher said:
Does the battery seem weak, struggling to turn the engine over fast enough when starting?
What is the current idle rpm when cold, normal, hot?
Is the idle ever rough with a splashy misfire from tailpipe?
Does the tailpipe ever smoke or smell of gasoline?
Does the car make gurgling sounds under the dash like there is air trapped in the coolant?
Click to expand...
Cratecruncher,
Battery seems to be strong. Turns the engine over no issue. Also, starts no issue. Even after stalling out.
The idol cold is about 1300-1400 (needle is curved upward so hard to tell exactly).
Warm it is about 1000.
The engine is running rich and I have tried everything to fix that, no luck. Another issue for another post.
No gurgling sounds. When I replaced the radiator I let the antifreeze flow out of the purge valve at the top to the radiator for awhile. Most of the air is out. No over heat issues or anything like that. Drove it to work about 45 minutes each way and only stalled when hot (afternoon drive home). The two fans didn’t come on during the drive to work.

Hope answers some of the question.

Mike
 
It dies at Idol? You mean when it hears Billy Idol ? :D

If you only have 12v @ idle when warm, then the voltage may be dipping too low to maintain the voltage needed for the ignition and/or fuel system. Since it dies when the fans kick in, it is likely the alternator regulator is not up to par, assuming you have checked the belt tension.
 
lookforjoe said:
It dies at Idol? You mean when it hears Billy Idol ? :D

If you only have 12v @ idle when warm, then the voltage may be dipping too low to maintain the voltage needed for the ignition and/or fuel system. Since it dies when the fans kick in, it is likely the alternator regulator is not up to par, assuming you have checked the belt tension.
Click to expand...
Lookforjoe,
Going to meter the voltage and probably purchase a new alternator. I knew the alternator would get jealous of all the other new parts soon.
Oh well, it is the original alternator to the car so it is about time anyway...

Anyone have one for an A/C 1986 Bertone available???
MWB, here I come...lol
Mike
 
You can have a parts store like Autozone test the system for you to get an idea of the problem.
 
I believe you have a Bosch alternator, try buying a new regulator it costs about 25 bucks and is the same one used on many Bosch alternators. It screws into the back of the alternator and can be reached from below or through the rear access panel.

When my regulator died it would stall the alternator belt due to trying to generate a very high amperage. The alt for an AC car costs a bit more so it would be worth trying just the regulator.
 
kmead said:
I believe you have a Bosch alternator, try buying a new regulator it costs about 25 bucks and is the same one used on many Bosch alternators. It screws into the back of the alternator and can be reached from below or through the rear access panel.

When my regulator died it would stall the alternator belt due to trying to generate a very high amperage. The alt for an AC car costs a bit more so it would be worth trying just the regulator.
Click to expand...
kmead,
Will do... that and taking it to an auto parts place to have the system checked out.

thank you,
Mike
 
Tavalin said:
Hello everybody,
I have returned and am now back to driving the X around. When the engine warms up and the dual fans kick in the engine dies at idol. I upped the idol a little bit and it still just cuts off. She sat for over three month while I was gone.
Now, when I look over at the voltage on the instrument panel the needle seems to be low. I just replaced the battery and partially rebuilt the top of the engine when I replaced the head gasket. Everything seemed fine when I drove around at that time, over four months ago.
Could it be the alternator isn’t supplying enough power? Or the new battery isn’t power enough (750 CCA rated).
Anyway, good to be back and talking to everyone again.
1986 Bertone X1/9, 1500.
Stay safe,
Mike
Click to expand...

With these symptoms I'd be thinking that it is more a fuel related issue. Check for any air leaks in the metered part of the inlet system.

EDIT: Sorry, overlooked the fact that it coincided with the cooling fans kicking in.
 
Last edited:
JimD said:
The guage isnt the same as a multimeter. You should check it with a meter.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike. Jim is correct !!

If....you are suspecting something is not right with your battery and/or alternator...it is pretty easy to do a first simple check.

In case you dont know how to....do you have a simple multimeter like this one ??
www.harborfreight.com

7-Function Digital Multimeter

Amazing deals on this 7 Function Digital Multimeter at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
www.harborfreight.com www.harborfreight.com

If not...go buy or borrow one.

Set the meter dial to "DCV 20" position. Stick the black test lead into the bottom socket of the meter, and the red lead into the socket above it.

With the car not running, put the other ends of the test leads to the battery terminals on the car. Red one to the positive terminal, and black one to the negative terminal. Note the meter reading and report it here.

Then start the car and let it idle. Take another reading and report it here.

Finally, get a helper to rev the engine to about 2500 rpms and hold it there for 10 seconds or so. Take another reading and report it here.

Someone will help you from there.

Good luck, Doug
 
I would be guessing at maybe a poor wiring connection somewhere? Bad ground? Especially after sitting for months. Perhaps try measuring the voltage at the coil or fuel pump before & after fans kick in? Bad main ground off battery to chassis?

Could try manually jumpering across the rad thermo switch and see if the engine dies. If engine immediatel dies, then it would be an electrical issue. And/or disconnect one fan and see if engine dies as it warms up? Is one fan faulty and drawing too much current?

I could be way off base tho.

lookforjoe said:
It dies at Idol? You mean when it hears Billy Idol ? :D

Nah... :confused:

THIS.
IS.
American idle.
Click to expand...
 
lookforjoe said:
It dies at Idol? You mean when it hears Billy Idol ? :D

If you only have 12v @ idle when warm, then the voltage may be dipping too low to maintain the voltage needed for the ignition and/or fuel system. Since it dies when the fans kick in, it is likely the alternator regulator is not up to par, assuming you have checked the belt tension.
Click to expand...
I love Billy Idol!!! I think all automobiles die when you crank Billy Idol... Unless, you have the proper coils to absorb the hits from the demand on power from The Idol.
Just say'n.
Mike
 
myredracer said:
I would be guessing at maybe a poor wiring connection somewhere? Bad ground? Especially after sitting for months. Perhaps try measuring the voltage at the coil or fuel pump before & after fans kick in? Bad main ground off battery to chassis?

Could try manually jumpering across the rad thermo switch and see if the engine dies. If engine immediatel dies, then it would be an electrical issue. And/or disconnect one fan and see if engine dies as it warms up? Is one fan faulty and drawing too much current?

I could be way off base tho.
Click to expand...
myredracer,
Interesting, I did just replace the radiator with one I purchased here. The fans are a lot louder than the originals (probably because only one worked). Maybe I do have a faulty one... that would be bad. I would hate to have to dig under there again. That was a pain to do.
I will go under there and try to get a voltage reading as well. Maybe something not right.

Thanks for the tips... going to have to jump on this sometime this week. Too busy at the moment.

Mike
 
If this were an issue with the voltage regulator not providing sufficient charging wouldn't the battery begin to struggle starting the car? Tavalin reports the battery cranks over the motor no problem...
 
Cratecruncher said:
If this were an issue with the voltage regulator not providing sufficient charging wouldn't the battery begin to struggle starting the car? Tavalin reports the battery cranks over the motor no problem...
Click to expand...

Anything is possible right now Crate. Tav is reporting voltage based on the behavior of the dash voltmeter and I don't consider that a true diagnostic piece of data. He is working on getting some data. Meanwhile, we are all guessing based on past experience. :)

Hmmm, he hasn't mentioned that the dash charge light is lit. I wonder if it is on or off??? Tav????
 
JimD said:
Anything is possible right now Crate. Tav is reporting voltage based on the behavior of the dash voltmeter and I don't consider that a true diagnostic piece of data. He is working on getting some data. Meanwhile, we are all guessing based on past experience. :)

Hmmm, he hasn't mentioned that the dash charge light is lit. I wonder if it is on or off??? Tav????
Click to expand...
JimD,
You are absolutely correct. I forgot to mention the red charge light.
The light is only one when I first start the engine. Once I rev it the light goes off and doesn’t come on unless it stalls.
Mike
 
Tavalin said:
JimD,
You are absolutely correct. I forgot to mention the red charge light.
The light is only one when I first start the engine. Once I rev it the light goes off and doesn’t come on unless it stalls.
Mike
Click to expand...
Thanks, so it thinks it is charging. Let us know what test results show. If you have the back cooling plate thingy on your alt, you should remove it before the test. They may want to test the output of the alt directly at the output lug.

In stock form, there is no direct wire from the alt to the battery. The alt's output wire goes to the starter's positive lug, then another wire off the same starter lug carries the charge forward to the battery. Given the age of the car, there can be a voltage drop from the alt to the battery.
 
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