Unfortunately I believe there is no way to discern which type of bolt you have by visual inspection.The head bolts are not the originals, but not sure what kind they are and can't remember who I got them from. See photos below
Unfortunately I believe there is no way to discern which type of bolt you have by visual inspection.The head bolts are not the originals, but not sure what kind they are and can't remember who I got them from. See photos below
A couple more ideas:But I don't think this would explain how the head gasket is more crushed in the back edge.
Yes I cleaned them out very well, tapped them, brushes them, brake cleaner, compressed air. The bolts have only 21mm below the head and there is 33mm if depth into the block.A couple more ideas:
Did you clean out the head bolt holes prior to installing the bolts? If there is crud in the bottom on the holes, you can lose a bit of depth.
or
Did you measure the old vs new bolts for length?
You mean a click type torque wrench or the type with the flex bar? I used the click type. Which one is considered better?Did you torque the head bolts to a torque value or to an angle?
It was this from Midwest, M12, they call them straight torque bolts. Not as long as the originals but they say they are goodUnfortunately I believe there is no way to discern which type of bolt you have by visual inspection.
Yes, but the shops here are so frikkin slow. I'll check it out with what I have, I mean it was just redone and should be fineA quality 24" machinist's straightedge is over $200 with tax and shipping. In my neck of the woods, that's not too much different from the price for a good local machine shop to professionally resurface the cylinder head.
The lack of retorque after the first heat cycle was likely the reason it failed, leaking oil into #1. Dang I gotta pay more attention. Thanks for sharing this Steve
Yes I did all that, only thing left is to check block and head for flat.Stuff to check..
~Head gasket hollow dowel alignment tube length. Measure the shoulder depth on the cylinder head and block, then verify the dowel tubes are shorter/less than the total length/depth of the pockets in the block and cylinder head. If the dowel tubes are too long they will prevent proper seating of the cylinder head/gasket to the block.
~Clean/chase the M12x1.25 internally threaded holes in the block using machine tool quality sprial/straight flute bottoming tap
KBC,12.0X1.25 METRIC BOTTOM TAP,1-373-070B,KBC Tools & Machinery
KBC,12.0X1.25 METRIC BOTTOM TAP,1-373-070B,KBC Tools & Machinerywww.kbctools.com
to assure the threaded holes are clean and in good condition.
~Measure the length of the M12x1.25 cylinder head "bolt" (technically a screw) including the M12 washer under the bolt heads from the end of the bolt to the surface of the cylinder head gasket.
Measure the depth of the internally threaded M12 hole on the block. There is a possibility the bolt threads are bottoming out on the internally threaded holes in the block.
~Flatness of the block & cylinder head should be checked..
~~ Based on the pattern left over after from the head gasket was the cylinder head was removed, it appears there is un-even clamping of the cylinder head/gasket to the block..
Bernice
For extra assurance, I'd recommend running a tap in that small hole in the thermostat housing mounting area of the cylinder head & installing a threaded plug, in addition to using the proper (other style) gasket. Like this:Also a photo of the t housing and gasket, clearly the wrong one. I really do have to be more thorough when building an engine.
Yes, but from what I love been told by machine shops most of their finishes are fine enough for use with an mlsI have heard that an MLS gasket wants a finer finish on the head and block to properly seal....
Machine shops tend to overestimate their abilities at times. I've found that very few can replicate the almost mirror finish an MLS gasket requires. It's hard to illustrate, but if you can see the results of the cutting operation, it's too rough for an MLS gasket.been told by machine shops most of their finishes are fine enough for use with an mls
Thanks for the photos and description. I'll take another close look at the head and block and call the shop.Machine shops tend to overestimate their abilities at times. I've found that very few can replicate the almost mirror finish an MLS gasket requires. It's hard to illustrate, but if you can see the results of the cutting operation, it's too rough for an MLS gasket.
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I don't take it like you're trying to rag on me at all, thanks for the input, it makes sense. I'm learning from everyone here and from my own failures, tho I want to keep those to a minimum! If it fails I will be the one rebuilding it, not the machine shop, and I do not want to do that again for awhile.From what I understand, to get the proper finish for an MLS gasket you need specialized tooling. I've heard shops using CBN instead of carbide. I would guess that if a shop isn't doing lots of engines that require that finish they may not have the tooling or appreciate the requirements. And if they're not doing a lot of that kind of work they also likely don't have a profilometer to actually verify the surface finish is right. In the last year or so I've seen several of the YouTube engine machinists talk about getting profilometers to verify their work, so I would argue having one isn't pervasive in shops at this point. I hope it doesn't feel like I'm trying to rag on you. Sorry to see the trouble with your engine. But I don't think a MLS job is one where "it should be fine" is correct.