New Header Dyno Results

the distributorless ignition works perfectly with a carbed car or FI. It's a great addition for a carbed car, which at times has a less than ideal mixture. It has a strong enough spark to fire the plugs whether the mixture is too lean or too rich.
 
Well Dan... I would assume with that new head...

... one would wanna also add a free-flow or extractor exhaust system to go with it.

I too am amazed at what hp/$ runs these days also... and if all things are kinda equal in a racing situation, then the additional $ spent to gain another 7 ponies over the next guy is what someone is gonna pay to win.

In this case... its all for "sport" mostly... and a bit outta my league also. But I do appreciate the effort!​
 
Me too... Ima no expert either...

But its been my EXPERIENCE that the header IAP or PBS sells or sold is a step up from the stock exhaust manifold and downpipe and is gonna naturally gonna allow the engine to breath a bit better and generate a few more ponies.

I believe Mark Plaia and Chris Obert experimented in building similar headers but with different lengths to the collectors and developed more hp and torque at different rpms... effectively tuning the length for their purposes.

Mark's is an entirely different method of going after the same thing... and apparently... and ESPECIALLY with a CAT... has achieved some remarkable results.

I doubt he's that lucky... there MUST be some hours and trials (and errors too) involved in this terrific outcome!
 
Hey Mark... continued CONGRATS...

Chris Obert brought up an issue about universal ($59.00 Summit) CATS not being acceptable for CA smog requirements anymore.

Has this been your experience also... and is this one of the newer CATS... and lastly... has the price come down on them?
 
I definitely have to agree.

I have always wanted to add a header to my cars, I know a good one can and will improve performance particularly in combination with other upgrades.

I work in product development and we have a saying that one test is worth a thousand opinions (infinite maybe?). I think this is a perfect example of the reality of this statement.

I have seen a variety of headers (mainly for the twin cams) and read many complaints over the dropping quality of the old school 4-2 to 2-1 units sold by many vendors and have never seen any testing that shows their efficacy.

This is some great news. Combining this header with a hotter cam, bigger valves, high compression pistons and conceivably a modern injection system one could end up with a pretty serious engine. Even some smaller steps beyond just the header would create a pretty interesting engine.

Really nice work Mark and thanks for going that extra mile to show how much value your work really can add.
 
Hey Tony, when I get to be your age am I gonna get up real early and go into a posting frenzy too? lol:D
ur funny.
 
"Not sure how you price it at $1100, I posted prices in a previous thread about it and we're nowhere near that amount."

I went with the previously posted $850 for the whole system non-coated, allowed $200 more for the catalytic converter, and figured $50 for shipping.
 
This makes me want to put on my Vick header and ANSA on NOW!

But sigh......Got to work on the work truck first. Income before fun..... :sigh:
 
Dan, not every one runs a cat. And you could use your existing cat. So that 200 is a hugh maybe. And the best bang for the buck dosent make sense in my own opinion. A good header and exhaust go hand in hand with a well worked over head , carb and cam set up. Just my opinion.:grin:
 
outside of Calif you can buy a cat for $60. The one that is one the X we tested was provided by the owner, and he paid $60 from a supplier in Az.
After studying test results, I'd put a test pipe in place of the cat and run without it except when it's time for a smog test. The cat did affect the torque curve although not the peak readings.
All in all though, performance is so close between the two setups it might not be worth the trouble to remove and install the cat
 
When I wrote Bang for the Buck I was going from the perspective of a person who has a stock FI car now (which is what you guys used as a baseline).

If that person had a budget of say $1,200 to $1,600 for performance mods, and wanted to get the most bang for their buck, would that person get more HP and torque by putting their budget into (for example) Matt's head and cam, or this header and exhaust system?

We do know that from baseline the header and exhaust gets us about 7 more HPs and Ft-Lbs. I got my $1,100 number from looking at my specific circumstances that require the use of the stock cat for meeting emission inspection regs. I assume the system is designed so that the factory cat bolts in and out.

We don't know from baseline what Matt's head and cam would give us. If there are any published figures, I would like to see them. I figured that IF Matt's head and cam could give about 9 HPs and/or Ft-Lbs more from baseline, that it would be equivalent on a bang-for-the-buck basis to the header and exhaust system. IF Matt's head and cam would yield more than 10 HPs and/or Ft-Lbs it would be a better value.

What would really be Da Bomb is to dyno test this header and exhaust system together with Matt's head and cam all installed on an FI car (since an FI car was used for the baseline).

I would think that the person interested in that combo would be someone who wanted to extract the most power from their car while staying inside the factory "sandbox"----without the extreme measures of an engine swap, and maintaining the use of the stock FI system (or at least the outward appearance) and stock exhaust routing and hangers so as to preclude any alterations of the chassis.
 
Fair enough, but the way i see things someone that mods thier head eventually mods thier exhaust to compliment thier head mod, or vis a versa. Its like one or the other is just a partial upgrade. The majority of the people here are trying to squeeeze the most out of this little motor. From what Ive seen the people here do it in steps, these are just two of the steps that are taken. Either its matts head up grade or someone elses. Or its this exhaust upgrade or someone elses.
So to me a bang for the buck comparison would be one head mod verses another, or one exhaust mod verses another.:)
 
anytime you're going to compare apples to oranges and try to decide which one tastes better, the discussion will get complicated. Besides straight dollar costs, you should compare the task of doing internal engine work vs an hour for bolt-ons, short-term and long-term reliability, whether there is any cost due to operating costs.
As I mentioned earlier, I'd suggest you do both mods; an improved cylinder head and exhaust. We picked up 2 hp with a tweaked afm and cold air intake. Without the header, would the afm have provided an increase? Would Matt's head improvement net 12 or 15 more hp with our exhaust? All questions begging for answers.
Dyno testing is pretty expensive though and I'm more than satisfied with our results. We've netted a 15% hp increase and nearly 20% torque increase at an rpm that is very usable and those are unheard of numbers for a header, especially with a catalyst. Our system scavenges so well, that other modifications will be enhanced.
So the head gives 10hp and our exhaust gives 7hp but the two together might produce 20 or more. The afm tweak shows the engine likes more air and fuel, so put in some overtime and adjust the budget a little higher
 
The stock manifold is such a restriction, that you would HAVE to change it out at the same time as improving flow on the intake flow.

To put it differently, in stock form, flow on the intake side is probably much better already than on the exhaust side (at higher rpm).
 
Awesome job!

Hi Mark,

not only does it seem like you developed a great product, but you also provided dyno curves WITH "before & after". Very convincing.
The curves look very good with a broad range and a power boost right where you need it.
Also, there aren't any dips in the curve (at least with the mild stock cam).
If it sounds good and doesn't boom on the highway, I'd say you have a perfect product!
 
wOw!

:eek:mg:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKR0FK6ZomU"]YouTube- Fiat X1/9 dyno test w header and catalyst from Allison's Automotive[/ame]
 
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