The Rat's Nest - 81 X1/9 Build

[Clatter]

While the welding department is working in the cockpit, look for cracks across the top of the tunnel in the vicinity of the shifter and handbrake handle. Same for the top of the strut towers. Some vendor sells reinforcement plates for the strut towers that you weld in from the top

Copy that.
Inspection had flagged structural cracks at all four corners of the shifter hole.
Welding & Fab was able to pull a ticket and expedite repairs.

Also got runk welds ground down.

Fabbed up replacements for rusted-gone upholstery holder spikes on seat frames.
RROWWEERRRR!!

Dropped them all off at the powder coater,
And,
Yep,
Sure enough,
First thing,
He got bit!

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Take a look at the X from the side, standing about 10-15 feet back, with the top off, seats removed and doors wide open. You will see why the center tunnel and floor pans (at the seat rails) crack. Being a open top vehicle without a solid roof, the chassis inherently has a very weak (structurally) section from side to side across there. Lots of flexing, twisting, bending, tweeking. It often shows up in the door gaps as well. Typical of most roofless designs from the era.

 

[Clatter]

Once it starts raining i go inside...

Front main seal showed up, so bottom of engine got assembled.
Re-checked torque on everything and buttoned up the pan, etc.
Sucks those dorks at Fiat don't specify torques on the oil pump, for example.
Most M8x1.25 grade 8.8 threads get 14 ft. lbs.
But notice they went to 22 on the water pump...
I winced and gave the oil pump thru-bolts 22.
Who knows if that's right or not? Guess we'll find out.
Pump still turns free so hope springs eternal.

Torquing big pulley bolt.
Using a VW flywheel lock.
Look ma, no hands!

Another use of VW tooling.
Matra 401 press plate fits motor mount bush perfectly.
Maybe we'll build some quality into this POS after all?

Got the whole short block buttoned up and then some.
Vroom!
Every part on the front of this engine got something.
Aux shaft pulley was borken, new water pump, mount bush, idler, seals, gaskets, belts, Yeesh!

Dug into Chris's motor/trans a bit.
Some of the hardware on this earlier stuff seems higher quality.
Plus, got a couple things that were broken or lost,
But mostly it was great to verify how everything goes together!
Having kids help tear down outside in the rain when you're sick isn't exactly conducive to organization.

Got the motor stuff put away to wait on the head and started trans noodling.

Thinking about the lower mount and it's three fasteners.
They only used one stud but two bolts, right?
Both mine and Chris's were like that.
In the ( *ahem* ) -rest- of the world, fasteners that are to be moved will not thread directly into soft castings.
The use of a stud/nut is correct, or an insert if clearance/access dictates it.
Fait's choice to just thread bolts is a poor one, and it shows in the condition of threads in the trans casting.
Can't decide if i should insert (TIme-Sert or Heli-Coil) the trans case, or just run studs into the other two holes.
The casting bosses for those fasteners are pretty small for inserts,
But I'm worried about clearance if i do studs.
Sure would hate to paint myself into a corner some time later.
Picturing an impossible struggle should the trans ever have to come back out.
(perish the thought *Touches wood*)


Started in with some assembly. Big thanks to SteveH for his 101 article.

Factory documentation leaves a LOT to be desired!
First thing i did was put this lever in upside down.
I even got it tight!

POS was driving me nucking futs!
Why put it in upside-down you ask?
Well lookee here... Fiat factory manual shows it going that way!!

Some guys at Fiat were just a$$holes, plain and simple.
When Luigi was stumbling back to the office after another three-hour lunch,
I'd a loved ta throw a blanket over that guy and serve him up...

Anyways,
One helpful thing i can offer is this special RTV for gear oils.
Many sealants won't survive long-term exposure.

And so here we are.. Finally getting around to some trans assembly.
A fun part of the project to be sure.

Oh, and one last thing...
This big E-clip showed up on the floor.
Spark plug to show scale...
ANybody recognize this?
Sure hope it didn't fall out of the engine or trans or something...

 

[Clatter]

Any transaxle nerds out there reading this?
Here's something I'm getting all nerded up about...

The bearing by the pinion gear is the 2nd most highly stressed bearing in the box.
Carrier bearings take the biggest beating, what with the car going over bumps in the road,
But pinion is connected to the diff and gets beat by proxy.

Here the inner race on mine is getting pitted.
Common for pits if there has been trash going thru the oil (like there always is),
But if the pitting is not just the rollers smashing stuff,
And you're seeing pitting that is the heat-treat starting to fail,
That's when you definitely replace the bearing.
Here I'm almost borderline.
Yes, this bearing might live a while,
But on the other hand, here we are... Out and apart.

So, here's where it gets interesting (nerdy?).

Remember, this box has been apart before, so we don't know if this is factory or someone else's mistake.
Not that Fiat didn't make plenty of their own mistakes...

Here's the bearing that came out of the box.

Outer race width is about .827 or so.

Notice how this bearing causes the pinion to sit away from the case.
Teeth on pinion are not centerd on ring gear.

Wear shows the same.

Bearing i got from MWB:

Race is about .040" narrower.

Now, it seems that we're on track here, right?
But the thing that's giving me the hump is this:

First, the pinion shaft has all of the sliding gears.
Second, the forks are located on the shift rails with this box in only one position.
On other boxes, the forks are adjustable on the rails,
And you set clearances by putting everything in a jig and adjusting so the forks clear the slider grooves,
Plus the engagement depth can be checked and corrected if need be.

Here, with the forks being in a set fixed position,
When you alter the relationship of the pinion shaft to the case,
(by changing to a narrower bearing)
You will change the relationship of the fork to sliders.

Said another way, the forks might drag on the sliders when gears aren't engaged,
Or the gears might not fully engage when they're supposed to.

When you're talking setting forks, .040 is a lot.

Then the question comes up if the last guy put in the wrong bearing...
I didn't see any unusual fork wear.
But then again, the box could have been recently rebuilt.
The pinion gear doesn't seem to indicate this, however...

Hmph.
Wondering what to do now.
My existing bearing isn't all that bad but getting there.
And it might be wrong...
Talked to Matt(?) at MWB at length about this and he says people run these new bearings successfully all the time.
He also said he never looked that closely and if i wanted to return it they would be happy to take it back.
They also sell just the rollers and outer for people who don't want to change the inner race.

Ugh.
Anybody got some wisdom to share about pinion bearings?
Pretty important piece to cut any corners,
And plenty of work to change if i get it wrong!

 

[kmead]

Thanks for the metalworking tips, gentlemen.
Prying that scuttle seam open and blasting it out sure seams like the right thing to do.

Those twisted knot wheels can get away from you!
Had this happen a couple years back.
View attachment 83235
View attachment 83234

Henceforth to be known as the Mackage Attacker.
Let’s just say i was very very lucky…

Good thing you had finished the breeding…

Not the way I would want to get a vasectomy or a reduction…

 

[Rod Midkiff]

Side note. when putting the two bolts and studs in the lower motor mount, be sure you don't put in a long one that lines up with the shifting fork (it will crack the case and bind the shifting shaft.

 

[Clatter]

Side note. when putting the two bolts and studs in the lower motor mount, be sure you don't put in a long one that lines up with the shifting fork (it will crack the case and bind the shifting shaft.

Hot tip.
Sounds like the voice of experience.

Another reason to use studs instead of bolts.

 

[Clatter]

Well, enough faffing about…
Went ahead and slapped it together.

Decided to just use the old bearings.

What’s done is done.

 

[johnph]

Hot tip.
Sounds like the voice of experience.

Another reason to use studs instead of bolts.

I think there is a reason for one stud and two bolts. It has something to do with being able to service either the trans crossmember or the rubber mount when the powertrain is in the car.

 

[Steve Hoelscher]

Got your message and am responding here.

Notes on the pinion bearing. That pinion bearing has the highest point loading of any bearing in the transmission. It also runs at higher rpm than the differential bearings. For this reason it runs hotter than the other bearings and that's the primary cause of the pitting, which is normal. But that doesn't mean its usable. I would replace that one.

Heck, I replaced this one and its not as bad.

SKF 35251 is the correct bearing. Its width is .825 in. You problem isn't the bearing but the race. You have the wrong race. This is the correct one.

As important as the overall height is the step height. And yours is obviously too tall.

I have seen this mismatch before and while it could cause problems by axially preloading the big end bearings on the pinion shaft as well as causing shallow engagement of 2nd and 4th, I can't say I have seen resulting failures.

I see lots of wrong bearings in previously rebuilt units. That's one reason I only use SKF differential bearings.

 

[Clatter]

Got your message and am responding here.

Notes on the pinion bearing. That pinion bearing has the highest point loading of any bearing in the transmission. It also runs at higher rpm than the differential bearings. For this reason it runs hotter than the other bearings and that's the primary cause of the pitting, which is normal. But that doesn't mean its usable. I would replace that one.

Heck, I replaced this one and its not as bad.

View attachment 83329


SKF 35251 is the correct bearing. Its width is .825 in. You problem isn't the bearing but the race. You have the wrong race. This is the correct one.



View attachment 83330

As important as the overall height is the step height. And yours is obviously too tall.

View attachment 83331

I have seen this mismatch before and while it could cause problems by axially preloading the big end bearings on the pinion shaft as well as causing shallow engagement of 2nd and 4th, I can't say I have seen resulting failures.

I see lots of wrong bearings in previously rebuilt units. That's one reason I only use SKF differential bearings.

Excellent, Excellent. Thank you very much Steve.
Saves my bacon for sure.

The bearing from MWB has the correct dimensions,
And will be going back in there soon.

Thanks again.


Danger seldom approaches without exciting a nerve ending somewhere.
-Ian Fleming's James Bond

 

[Dr.Jeff]

This big E-clip showed up on the floor.
Spark plug to show scale...
ANybody recognize this?

If you have a engine stand that looks anything like this (below), check to see if one wheel is missing this clip. Clips are located on the outside of the rear wheels (arrows). I've had them come off a couple of times and found it lying on the floor....wondering where it came from:

 

[Clatter]

If you have a engine stand that looks anything like this (below), check to see if one wheel is missing this clip. Clips are located on the outside of the rear wheels (arrows). I've had them come off a couple of times and found it lying on the floor....wondering where it came from:

View attachment 83333

Holy sheep s#it!
Dr. Jeff you are a forking genius!

 

[Clatter]

More child labor today. Theo gave me a few hours.

Ah, to be young and strong again.
He powered through a bunch of rust and grime removal.
Digging out old, failed seam seal.
Wire wheels, Rolocs, Scoth-Brite.
80, 220, 400...

We gave everything a wash-down with industrial phosphate.
The red rust turns to a paintable black iron oxide,
And hope springs eternal.

^^^Pic above is passenger side engine compartment scuttle.^^^
Any of you remember what this looked like when we were washing it?

We were going to brush and maybe shoot some epoxy into these cracks,
Then follow up in short order with a bunch of seam seal,
But weather wasn't quite warm enough to get everything dry,
So we're waiting until tomorrow.

Mom got a pic of the two of us.
Really makes the old man happy to be working on a project with my son.

 

[Clatter]

A big day with little to show...

Right as we got started Maurizio! brought us little pizzas!
Love you, man... *sniff*.

Kid powered through underside grinding of welds and wire-wheeling away of grime.
Trooper!

I mixed up some Metal-2-Metal to make a thin smear all along the pitted runk floor.
Might add some reinforcement to thin metal when his skateboard bounces around in there.
Also mixed up some epoxy to brush into crevices before seam seal.

Theo pried open the front scuttle seam and dug out rust.
Also dug out rotten/failed seam seal anywhere it was rotten/failed.

I got after some blobbing of new seam seal.
Killed a whole tube of the stuff on just the runk and engine compartment and still need more.
Amazing how much of that stuff was used!

While we both had high hopes of having something ready for paint,
New rust holes poked thru in the frunk and i have to go get more seam seal and there's a bunch more sanding needed.
Now that the trans has to come back apart, and i made the mistake of checking how much we have spent,
A gloom has set itself upon my soul.
Theo can feel it as well. How much more is this car going to ask of us?
This is where a lot of projects stall out, and for good reason.
The stoke has been killed by labor and spending,
Yet, if you look at what you have to show for it, it ain't much,
And the car keeps coming farther apart.
Unforeseen surprises of both labor and parts keep popping up.
It feels like a treadmill.
We need to see something, anything(!) actually done.

 

[Mark_Toro]

Hopefully your efforts slow it down some.

My weekend battle with rust:

Only five more sections to go - there is no such thing as a rust free Alfetta.

 

[Clatter]

Whoo! Depressing...
About 100 people a year travel across the country to the Golden Gate bridge to jump off of it.
And here we are only 45 minutes away...!

Couldn't bring myself to dig any more seam seal or sand inside a trunk,
And the powder coater said my seat frames were done,
So went and ran errands.
Bulkhead panel and duct is blasted, seat frames look good.
Can you believe a tube of that damn seam seal is 65 bucks?

Drug my ass into motion and finished up the seam along the front scuttle.
Had pried it open, dug it out, phosphated and dried prior, so i primed with a small brush.

That was impossible to get into the very center way under the cowl,
So i used an old syringe Mom got me from her work like a squirt gun.

Pumped that seam full of seal and then tried to pry it closed before the sealer set up.
What a messy battle!
Using a little pointy piece of stick to push out bubbles and settle it to the bottom,
Then prying and pushing with blocks of wood and about half the tools in my box.
It was quite the battle.
that seam is WAY easier to pry open than it is to pinch shut,
But in the end i got it.

Seam-sealed the frunk and undercoated over the muffler area and sanded the runk but I'll spare y'all details of that.
Too many already!

Dunno how many of you have battled seam sealer before but I get that stuff all over everything!
When trying to hammer that seam shut it was splattering out of the seam.
When i got all done cleaning tools and the car and all,
Only then did i stop and look at myself.
Had a little bit of wood pusher stick glued to the side of my face!

 

[SuperTopo]

Whoo! Depressing...
About 100 people a year travel across the country to the Golden Gate bridge to jump off of it.
And here we are only 45 minutes away...!

Couldn't bring myself to dig any more seam seal or sand inside a trunk,
And the powder coater said my seat frames were done,
So went and ran errands.
Bulkhead panel and duct is blasted, seat frames look good.
Can you believe a tube of that damn seam seal is 65 bucks?
View attachment 83436

Drug my ass into motion and finished up the seam along the front scuttle.
Had pried it open, dug it out, phosphated and dried prior, so i primed with a small brush.
View attachment 83437

That was impossible to get into the very center way under the cowl,
So i used an old syringe Mom got me from her work like a squirt gun.
View attachment 83438

Pumped that seam full of seal and then tried to pry it closed before the sealer set up.
What a messy battle!
Using a little pointy piece of stick to push out bubbles and settle it to the bottom,
Then prying and pushing with blocks of wood and about half the tools in my box.
It was quite the battle.
that seam is WAY easier to pry open than it is to pinch shut,
But in the end i got it.
View attachment 83439

Seam-sealed the frunk and undercoated over the muffler area and sanded the runk but I'll spare y'all details of that.
Too many already!

Dunno how many of you have battled seam sealer before but I get that stuff all over everything!
When trying to hammer that seam shut it was splattering out of the seam.
When i got all done cleaning tools and the car and all,
Only then did i stop and look at myself.
Had a little bit of wood pusher stick glued to the side of my face!

Yeah, I went through that as well. I didn't get as messy as you, but I did spend some time getting the stuff off my tools.

 

[Mark_Toro]

Panel bond is worse. Still have it on my hands three days later.

My approach to that seam would have been:

• phosphate wash
• weld through primer (high zinc)
• hammer it shut (tap tap tap)
• Then seam seal

Guess I'll know if that is less messy when I get there in a year.

 

[Rod Midkiff]

I wonder if there is someone with an X1/9 in your area who would take you for a drive or let you drive their car. This car really is a blast to drive!!!

None of my cars would win any awards for their looks. I have them to enjoy the drive.