The Rat's Nest - 81 X1/9 Build

Got a slacker Sunday in.

Started kinda late, then Theo had to work.
Since it was raining we dug into switching out bearings.
Started with popping CV flanges.
Much quicker when you have already made the tool. :)
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Inner races wanted very badly to remain in place.
Ended up grinding them down thin before they relinquished hold.
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LOTS of gasket scraping.
This is why you put these gaskets in dry, right?
IMG_7493.jpeg



Input shaft got nicked in the seal area.
“You didn’t tell me to watch out for that Dad” 🙄
Price of involving them i guess…
FWIW, maybe it missed the spot under the spring where the seal actually rides/seals?
IMG_7496.jpeg



Either way,
Weighing the consequences of a setback…
Wrong bearings eating a thousand bucks worth of gears, forks and sliders,
Versus a nicked shaft leaking oil and ruining a clutch disk,
We’ll call it two steps forward and one back.

I’m not paying $200 or so plus shipping for another input shaft and waiting for this thing to get out of my way.
Maybe it won’t even leak.

Went ahead and buttoned it up after he went to work.
IMG_7354.jpeg


Ever get this sense of deja vu?
 
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If you look closely at the shaft, the nick is below the dark/smooth ring.
That ring is a mark left by years of the seal riding on the shaft.
Right were the spring pulls the seal lip tight to the shaft...

It's far enough away that I'm willing to gamble.

Only risk is the box leaking a bit, maybe oiling up a clutch disc.
Not like that bearing thing where parts are going to get ruined.

Worst case scenario we have to do another pull/stuff of the gearbox one day.
Now that the piles of rat poo are gone, and there's no more missing parts and rusty stripped fasteners it'll be a lot easier.
Going to be a gamble anyways since it's a collection of different new and used parts plus my first try at this type of box.

Yeah, it sucks and blows to be sure.
I'm glad i didn't call him too many names or make him feel bad for being so stupid.
Maybe did him a disservice by not doing so?
God only knows the tongue-lashing you'd a got back in the old days for a forkup like that!

Either way, I'm getting really, really sick of this transaxle sitting here taking up my bench.
Don't care if it leaks and needs done again,
Time to get on with life.
Seems that if i keep rebuilding it to perfection I'd be dead first.

It's going to be lying in the corner now,
And I'm going to kick it every time i walk by.
With as much money and pain as it took to build,
The part of me that hates it is WAY bigger than the part of me that loves it.

I'm feeling a rant coming on.
Must... Not.... Rant...
 
Just offset the seal a bit. I do that all the time rather than speedi-sleeve the shaft. A little wisp of oil if anything.

Did the rear main on the truck when I put in a new clutch and flywheel. Stuck an f-n screwdriver through the new seal. Didn't want to wait to get another - I was in the assembly zone. A dab of RTV and a prayer. Yeah it leaks, but only when the oil pan is full, and parked on a grade. :)

Sometimes I think we all get too obsessed with perfect.
 
Weather wasn't paint weather, so did inside work.

Started plumbing up my rebuilt injectors and intake using the MWB fuel hose kit.
IMG_7500.jpeg


Injector Rehab included two of those factory-style crimp connectors with each injector.
They work like other push-on hose you'll see where the collar captures the ends.
MWB kit didn't come with collars, but did include four FI-style hose clamps.

I'm kinda leery of push-on fittings if you're not using correct hose.
The MWB hose did however push on very firmly and seems to have worked well.
Unfortunately, i mistakenly thought the hose pieces were trimmed to length.
After pushing the hose together,
You'll see that it's too long, and the rail fouls the log.
Now i get to see if i can't take it apart somehow... :rolleyes:
IMG_7501.jpeg


Mother Fiat used the collars in a few locations around the manifold.
You can see a small shoulder where the collar locates, like here between the two rails.
Something about clamping around those barbs makes me squeamish.
Sharp barbs can cut hose if clamped.
You can sand them down a bit, but then you'll never use the OG style push-lock.
IMG_7505.jpeg


I emailed MWB and Matt got right back to me.
He says you can use either setup.

Any of you guys have experience with this?
What's your call - source some OG collars,
Or just use the clamps?
 
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Clatter said:
Weather wasn't paint weather, so did inside work.

Started plumbing up my rebuilt injectors and intake using the MWB fuel hose kit.
View attachment 83655

Injector Rehab included two of those factory-style crimp connectors with each injector.
They work like other push-on hose you'll see where the collar captures the ends.
MWB kit didn't come with collars, but did include four FI-style hose clamps.

I'm kinda leery of push-on fittings if you're not using correct hose.
The MWB hose did however push on very firmly and seems to have worked well.
Unfortunately, i mistakenly thought the hose pieces were trimmed to length.
After pushing the hose together,
You'll see that it's too long, and the rail fouls the log.
Now i get to see if i can't take it apart somehow... :rolleyes:
View attachment 83656

Mother Fiat used the collars in a few locations around the manifold.
You can see a small shoulder where the collar locates, like here between the two rails.
Something about clamping around those barbs makes me squeamish.
Sharp barbs can cut hose if clamped.
You can sand them down a bit, but then you'll never use the OG style push-lock.
View attachment 83657

I emailed MWB and Matt got right back to me.
He says you can use either setup.

Any of you guys have experience with this?
What's your call - source some OG collars,
Or just use the clamps?
Click to expand...

<- some day I'll get around to updating this ancient web page.

You can get the right hose here: https://belmetric.com/eckstein-smooth-multi-fuel-rubber-hose/?sku=RHM7.5ECK

That's how I do it, no need to replace anything but the hose itself. No need to "kits" or special hose clamps. Super easy, but no one wants to believe it...

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The finished rail for my son's '86

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Legit! 👍🏽
 
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Thanks for the tips.
Went with a vendor to help be sure i got the right stuff.
And to support our vendors..
Hose seems to fit very tightly so we’re trying it.

But... Yeah... It's 5/16" - 7.9mm.
Will we make fire? Time will tell.

Found the collars (ferrules).
https://injector-rehab.com/product/ferrule/
 
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I have tested (unintentionally) the factory hose collars and can confirm when installed properly they hold up past 100psi (what the fuel pressure gauge maxed out at) :rolleyes:
 
Last evening, in my brother's driveway, I did this job in situ. I was not brave enough to use the factory collars. Note that the cross hose (between the two metal sections of fuel rail) is slightly longer than the injector supply hoses.
 
I've done this both with the ferrule and with the fuel injector style clamps (not worm clamps). I've had issues and success with both. I think the key (no, I know the key) is using the correct hose.

When I replaced the injectors on the Milano last fall I used the ferules. Seems to be holding up well.

It is very unnerving when you experience a failure here. Prior Milano issues with old, old hoses that started to split. I smelled fuel in the car, shut it down and when I checked under the hood there was a fine mist of fuel coming from the cracked hose - for about a minute. Visions of flames in my head. 😲

I limped it a mile or so to a mechanic I trust and left it there for him to fix. Seriously, it was so unnerving that I didn't want to try to drive the 30 miles home. And I was willing to spend the $300 for the work (I'm tight).
 
Those push-on barbed fittings with the collar on the bottom are identical in design to Parker Push-lok hosed & fittings. The retention works identical to those "Chinese finger traps", as the inner braid of the hose is pressurized, the hose contracts the inner braid forcing the hose ID to contract gripping the barbed fitting with more force.. the collar at the hose opening aids in guiding the hose ID compression as the hose is pressurized. Not gonna come off.

Been using Parker Push Lok hoses and fittings for many years, not a single problem to date other than assembly of the larger sizes which requires far more force to push than what might be initially believed.

Used industry standard 5/16" / 8mm fuel injection hose as replacement for the L-Jetronic fuel rails with push on barbs, no issues with leaks or hose off. Keep in mind how difficult removing the hose off the barbed fittings are... is the reality check on a hose blow off. Typical L-Jetronic fuel system pressure is nee. 50psi... In the the universe of industrial and similar systems 50 psi is considered low pressure. This is not a hydro system operating at 3,000 psi or 10,000psi with a safety factor of 4x or more..

What has become important here is the SAE spec for the fuel hose. It must be SAE SAE 30R9 or better, previously discussed:

fuel line opinion

These look okay to you guys? They are 6 years old. Maybe that heat shield is more important than I thought.:confused:
xwebforums.com

Don't skimp in fuel hose, due to modern fuel blends with ethanol and other not hose friendly compounds.


Bernice
 
Make sure to use E85 capable hoses (even if running on gas) and with correct size. I recommend using clamps as well to be on the safe side. This happened to me two years ago and I was very close to a fire. Even if not running on E85, the fuel almost disolved the rubber hose.
IMG_20220704_133618.jpg

Much better this way with a good hose and clamps
IMG_20220705_214429.jpg
 
Thanks again for the input gentlemen (and Bernice).

Dag...
Turns out Belmetric is out of the smooth 7.5mm fuel hose,
With no more expected for at least a couple of months.
Anybody have another favorite source for the stuff?

Seems like 7.5mm is pure unicorn!

Maybe the braided hose might work?
I know VWs used a lot of braided hose with L-Jet BITD,
But it's generally considered unsuitable now.
Wonder how SAE J30 compares to ISO 1307? 🧐

https://belmetric.com/eckstein-braided-multi-fuel-rubber-hose/?sku=RHM7.5BRAIDECK
 
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But they have even better hose:

I replaced all my high pressure fuel hose with Cohline 2240-0600 a few years ago. The BelMetric SKU is RH7.3HP. This hose is 13.5 mm OD, 7.3mm ID and works well with the Bosch barbs and collars setup. It is rated for up to 100% ethanol.
 
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ng_randolph said:
But they have even better hose:

I replaced all my high pressure fuel hose with Cohline 2240-0600 a few years ago. The BelMetric SKU is RH7.3HP. This hose is 13.5 mm OD, 7.3mm ID and works well with the Bosch barbs and collars setup. It is rated for up to 100% ethaol.
Click to expand...
That's the call. 😎

Sucks to buy $50 worth of hose after buying a kit,
But i can use the 5/16" hose on my VW.
I'm totally PTSD after experiencing years of scares and frustration.
Have owned an L-Jet bus since 1989 and can't number the fire stories.
Not only does the bus have 10' of hose,
The compartments run hot,
And they're the vehicle most likely to be owned by hippies.
The only good thing is that burned buses were a plentiful source of parts for a while there... ;)
 
But maybe the L-Jet busses were a better solution to the 68 that my aunt drove? Needed an engine every 10-20K miles. Easy to do of course, but man that thing was stressed.
 
Clatter said:
That's the call. 😎

Sucks to buy $50 worth of hose after buying a kit,
But i can use the 5/16" hose on my VW.
I'm totally PTSD after experiencing years of scares and frustration.
Have owned an L-Jet bus since 1989 and can't number the fire stories.
Not only does the bus have 10' of hose,
The compartments run hot,
And they're the vehicle most likely to be owned by hippies.
The only good thing is that burned buses were a plentiful source of parts for a while there... ;)
Click to expand...
The Injector rail project is much about hose.. Any kits are intended to make that project easier. If the kit is not used, possible to return it?

As for that hose
belmetric.com

Cohline Series 2240 High Pressure Hose

Bel-Metric sells metric hardware & specialty automotive supplies nationwide. Visit our website to purchase metric fasteners, nuts, bolts, Time-Sert kits & more.
belmetric.com belmetric.com

The industry standard numbers in bold are what's important.

Additional Standards:
BMW GS 93010, DBL 6256.70, GME 08 007, SAE J30R9, VW TL 524 24, DIN 73379 Type 3E

And yes, 8mm / 5/16" hose will work on the Bosch L-jetronic injector fuel rail.. Much to do with design and designers knowing there are tolerances involved with flexi parts like hoses.. Never believe the hose will be precisely the "spec" diameter.. vast production assures this will and can never be.. Any design engineer or engineers involved with vast hose production know this deeply as does the design engineers involved with creating that injector rail. This is the reality of production tolerances and any item that is pressed into vast production.

Often ignored, hoses and countless other flexi parts on any exxe is decades old and well-aged. To believe any of these flexi parts are still ok is a total fallacy and fantasy. Stuff like what happened on this "road trip"..

800 Miles in an 86

This last weekend I took my first drive in the 86 X I bought. I live in Colorado, the car was in NJ, and it went to my friend in Pennsylvania for some low grade refubishment. (here: https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/86-bertone-for-sale.44699/#post-433330) After a 15 mile test...
xwebforums.com

Just not into "adventure", if the moto is driven even down the block or drive way, any failure of anything is not acceptable.


Bernice
 
Is there a downside (other than the obvious devation from the OEM aesthetics) of using clamps vs. the ferrules?
 
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